Requiem of Doom

Riddle of Steel / Riders of Doom: if you remember Conan the Barbarian, you'll remember the tune (track 2). Lord only knows, but parts of it, esp. 3:50 make me think of the Requiem mass: Dona eis requiem aeternam to a pounding, driving over-the-top Williams-esque heroic tune. Rather appropriate, in this case: eternal rest grant unto them as Conan is killing everyone.

The tune is not exactly the version in the modern Gregorian tradition or even Mozart. Yes, yes, the picky adherents to the Church of Rome will point out that the 'official' order of the text is 'requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine'. However, given the glory of Latin declination of nouns, it shouldn't really matter in which order they are used.

Failing my current profession, perhaps I can turn to a life setting the Latin Mass to new settings.
et lux perpetua luceat eis.

Latin, pt. 2

Dr.Nuke posted earlier, regarding Mass in Latin:
may help promoting the unity among those that do not share a common language during service/prayer.

I was in Vienna for Easter in 1975 (I was 9). I didn't want to go to Mass, and tried to argue with my parents that there was no need to go, since none of us spoke German & we wouldn't be able to follow anything. This is the point in my life where I discovered Latin.

My parents: when we were children, Mass was always in Latin.

Me: that's stupid

... fast forward to 2010 ...

Some one: I want Mass to always be in Latin

Me: that's stupid


We went to Mass that Easter Sunday. Mom told me later it was some Hungarian?/not-German/not-English congregation. Definitely not speaking the vernacular, Mom & Dad decided to see how much Latin they remembered.

So ... I got to listen to Mass in Hungarian, and my parents in Latin. I assure you, there wasn't any unification goin' on with me.

Conversely ...

The first time I was in Germany with Mr.Gopher, we went to Mass with his parents. Who do speak German :-) I thought "well, I speak German, sort-of" (having, courtesy of Dr.Nuke & Mr.Gohper, learned how "sort-of" it was)... I thought steadfastly, "I can do this". ha ha. I very quickly realized I couldn't: I just recited it all in English. My father-in-law thought it was cool that I did.

I agree with Dr.Nuke's point #3; which is likely the intent behind the person I quoted. It would be nice to be able to follow some of the service if visiting a foreign land (like Lake Street in Midtown). I don't know if this is the way to do it. After all, the reason I could follow the Mass in Germany is that it is the same. Even today, at the sign of peace, we both say to each other "Der Friede sei mit dir". Not that I think peace is any more effective in German ... it's just that it is German; an offering from me to him.

At our wedding in Gladbeck, the Mass was (obviously) in German. However, being cognizant of the mixed audience, we had the Gospel read in both German and English, that being the most important of the readings to understand. We also had the Lamb of God in - yes - Latin. Sung by a Frenchwoman. Why? I am particularly fond of the arrangement; we used it at St. John's.

Almost everyone at the wedding was Catholic. It was unifying, as an aspect of our Catholic cultural history. Basically, the reason many people argue we should keep doing it on occasion. And, the reason I don't object to doing it on occasion. I see it as similar to taking the kids to the Minneapolis Art Institute to look at Greco-Roman art. It's important to understand how we as Catholics got to where we are, in order to figure out which direction we should be demanding the Church take from here. (Yo, Your Holiness: call me; let's discuss bureaucracy & theology. The staff over at St. Albert's can give you my number.)

Anyway - the Agnus Dei in Latin at my wedding: Ultimately, it was a mass offered by us to our families and friends in celebration of our marriage; it wasn't next Sunday's liturgy. And there were quite a few people singing with it; Violaine sung it a capella while standing in the middle of the congregation - she couldn't get up to the front. It was particularly appealing, truly driving home the point that we all get together and we worship together - it's an audience participation event. (and something we can do without the priest)

retarded

Latin is a unifying factor for all Roman Catholics. I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit will move our Pope and bishops to bring back Latin as a sign of the oneness of the Church.

God, help us all. "It's always been done that way" is such a retarded reason for doing anything. Retarded, as is a retarding growth or development. Retarded as in stupid, too.

I would think that social justice or caring for and feeding the Poor would be a much better "sign of oneness". You know, those minor, piddling, little things that Jesus (not the old white dude in Rome) said we ought to be doing. Shouldn't the direct commandments of Our Lord and Savior be the Truly Unifying factor for Catholics?

Sure, the Church used Latin for 1500 years. (The author fails to note what it was using before that.) So what?

Does he seriously think that making men learn Latin will make them better priests? Who gives a damn, if they can say Mass in Latin? "Increasing popularity of it"?? Great, 10 people want it in stead of 5. That's a 100% increase!! He fails to observe that requiring priests to be able to have a Latin Mass does not mean the people can follow it. They'll sit - stand - kneel and spew forth words that they might recite by rote. (as many of them do in the Vernacular) Why not require parishoners to speak Latin before they're even allowed to attend mass in Latin? Can't recite the Mass in Latin? ... oh, well, can't make your Confirmation. We'll be a much, much, much smaller Church, but, by God, we'll all speak Latin!

Will learning hosana, hosana ... agnus dei qui tolis (serious miserere here) ... Vater Unser ... uh, oops ... kyrie eleison ... uh, oops ... adoramus te ... Pater noster qui in caelis ... OMG WTF?

Does God speak Latin? Given the proportion of the population of the Catholic Church, She likely speaks Spanish. Now that's a much more practical language to learn to unify the Church.

Latin is a unifying factor for all Roman Catholics. Really? Sexist bullshit is a pretty unifying factor for the Church offices in Rome; I already know they're Hell-bent on never changing that.

Latin is a unifying factor for all Roman Catholics. Really? Which Catholics is he talking about? 'Cause none of them are the ones I know. The handful of the "I want to be able to go to a Latin Mass" crowd whom I have met all think Latin is a divisive factor (admittedly they wish it wasn't, but they realize it is). And, I've never personally met anyone who thought the Mass should only be in Latin.

Latin, for any American Catholic under 40, has no ability to unify or create community. Some people @ St. John's in East Lansing thought it was nice that we sang the Lamb of God (a.k.a. Agnus Dei) in Latin occasionally. It had a very nice musical setting, admittedly. This is an appreciation for music, not an in depth connection with the divine they want every day for eternity.

A friend in Michigan worked at Zondervan's bookstore (a publishing house of Christian material ranging from bibles to theology to fiction). Garth had a woman come into the store one day who had recently converted to a sect which really emphasized personal bible study. Not remarkable in that part of the state. She was looking for a copy of the King James (not revised) version as being "more authentic". These are people who hold to the "infallible transcription" theory of biblical liturature. My friend pointed out to her that the original texts were written in Greek. She seemed devastated and on the spot decided she needed to learn old Greek, to put the least distance between her & the Word of God. Greek, not Latin.

Perhaps this deluded Catholic missed his language by a few centuries ... We ought to go back to having the liturgy in Latin, but keep the proclaimation of the Gospels in Greek, and the Psalms in Hebrew. None of this mamby-pamby 20th Century Vatican 2 bullshit ... NO! WE WANT TO BE UNIFIED ...

unified with whom?

How about unified with the Rest of the Roman Catholic Church? (read: 75% of the 1 billion Catholics in the world who are all living in poverty in 3rd/developing world countries). They don't speak Latin.

Using Latin will unify the American - and possibly European - Catholics who are all AARP members. It won't do shit for the woman in Mumbai living on 2 cents/day, who knows that when the Poor shall inherit the earth, she's going to be sitting pretty.

I've never heard a justification for Latin in the Church other than "that's the way we've always done it". Hey, we've sinned and fallen short of the glory of God for all of Human History. That's what we've always done ~ why change now? Sin is the one, true unifying experience.